I don't really get the "non-visual" tag. During their heyday, they definitely had the extravagant looks, appeared in every magazine imaginable (Fool's Mate, zy/[zi:], SHOXX, Band Yarouze, Arena37ºC, Vicious, you name it), played in tours and festival with other visual kei bands (SHOCK WAVE ILLUSION, stylish wave COUNTDOWN, V-ROCK FESTIVAL, etc)... So, why non-visual?

because they aren't anymore, also they where way more glamrock/metal. Also they were seen as an punk band also wikipedia says they are not. (English and Japanese)

we still need a tag "former vkei"

this band is like

protokei vkei non kei

depends on the area...

also non kei bands appeared in vkei magazines, and some magazines where half vkei half non-kei. and there are bands who fit in both genres.

Or like this メジャーデビュー前後の頃には「ヴィジュアル系ヘヴィメタルバンド」として売り込んでいたが、あくまでそれはライブの観客動員を増やすための戦略だったようである。インディーズ第2期~第3期の頃はちょうどヴィジュアル系バンドが全盛期であり、都内のライヴハウスに出演依頼を申し込んだ際に「今更メタルなの?」と門前払いに等しい扱いを受けたことがあったと後にANCHANGが語っており、ヴィジュアル系を名乗るのは演奏場所を確保するための苦肉の策であった。 だが、アルバムの発売枚数が少ないもののライブの動員数が多く、メジャーデビュー1年半で日本武道館でのライブを実現させている。

Around the time of the major debut, it was being marketed as a "visual heavy metal band", but it seems that it was a strategy to increase the mobilization of the live audience. In the second to third indies, visual bands were at their peak, and when I applied for a live house in Tokyo, I was treated as if it was a metal now? ANCHANG later said that it was a painful measure to secure a playing place to call the visual system. However, although the number of albums released is small, the number of live mobilization is large, and the live at Nippon Budokan has been realized for one and a half years after the major debut.

Wikipedia is not really a reliable source, since it can be edited by anyone at any time and traditional heavy metal fans have a prejudice against vkei. Particularly overseas...

I get what you are saying, but judging by their looks, the magazine they appeared and bands they played with, they shouldn't be tagged as non-visual here. I mean, their CDs had a slogan calling them "VISUAL SUPER HARD sex MACHINEGUNS", and their ties to the scenes are so strong to this day that Anchang even was one of Raphael's support guitarist during their revival.

It's not like they appeared in one magazine or two, I wouldn't build a case for calling VOLCANO a vkei band, for example... But, SEX MACHINEGUNS had the strong looks, toured with mostly vkei bands, were active in the scene and still play vkei festivals nowadays. Would you say these dudes are not a vkei band? C'mon, they definitely are (or were! haha).

The fact they played heavy metal shouldn't be a prejudice, since visual kei itself is not a music genre. These dudes were touring with Plastic Tree and LAREINE, they dressed as pompous as PENICILLIN or Raphael... They even had VHS tapes teaching their fans how to do furitsuke. An average metal band damn sure wouldn't do that hahaha. That is some Psycho le Cému type of shit!

AmazonCDJapanRarezHutwishlist

2000-09-27

SEX MACHINEGUNSSEX MACHINEGUNSBakuzan Sensei Furitsuke Kouza莫山先生振付講座

1. Ai koso Subete (愛こそすべて)
2. Esthetician (エステティシャン)
3. Mikan no Uta (みかんのうた)
4. Yellow Card
5. KISS

Never heard of them beign perceived as punks, but that would not be a problem. THE DEAD P☆P STARS were punks too.

And, sure, I get what your saying about "former vkei" but I think that itself is such a grey area and would make things so confusing... Like, pretty much every 90's band dropped their heavy imagery after a couple of years, just like they did. That would mean calling LUNA SEA or X JAPAN former vkei too, and it doesn't seem right to me. If they were vkei once, they'll be forever. At least for vkgy's database interests and how bands are tagged here now.

I think we should stop calling bands visual kei, if they said they were actually not. And I think wikipedia is still a good source. As you could read, SEX MACHINEGUNS went visual kei because they HAD too. if they didn't, people wouldn't really notice them, because visual kei was a HYPE. rolling inside visual kei gave them more opportunities to play even live gigs (at events). They gained more fans, for also stepping inside the visual kei world. They didn't want that themselves but they got forced to do it. It was just a selling strategy, but actually they were NOT a visual kei band. They only used visual kei to be more popular.

John and I will go deeper in this soon.

Maybe it was planned as a gimmick to get a bigger an audience, but I doubt it... They already looked like a vkei band years before the major debut and kept like that for years before eventually toning it down, like pretty much every major band does. Here's Anchang talking about it himself, after beign asked by ARLEQUIN (アルルカン)'s Aki: "We are former visual kei too (laughs). [...] I don't have any problems with it, but I wonder if the audience care more. About 20 years ago, when SEX MACHINEGUNS was working in a visual kei framework...".

It seems he's talking about how they were a visual kei band playing with a senpai normal band, and now they are the ugly guys playing with the nice looking ones, because of their two-man with ARLEQUIN haha. So, yeah, they were a visual kei band, as he said himself. I think tagging them as non-visual would mean tagging X, LUNA SEA, KUROYUME, L'arc~en~Ciel and everybody else non-visual too.

Also, just remembered their debut, MADE IN JAPAN and HEAVY METAL THUNDER (their last album before dropping the crazy clothes and make-up) are all in Akemi Oshima's VISUAL ROCK PERFECT DISC GUIDE 500, in The Golden Era of VISUAL ROCK chapter. Noriko Shouji also included them in some omnibus releases.

I still see them as non-visual kei, because it was just a short area, to promote themselves to much more people and not get being overflowed by the popularity of other bands. As said, I'll come back to this point later on. Give me some time to get some "official" statement of people who worked with visual bands back in the days.

And,.

Heavy Metal is not visual kei.

I disagree. Let me elaborate:

• As much as they may have been forced to use the term "visual kei", Sex Machineguns dressed the part. No-one can deny that the band had a visual style. What the current style is, is irrelevant - visual kei is an artificial term, initially designed as a moniker by other non-musicians to describe a particular look, which makes it a subjective term too. This renders the marketing argument moot.

SEX MACHINEGUNS went visual kei because they HAD too.

Yes. They also dressed the part, which made them visual.

• Bands now being non-VK, or bands that only were VK for a short while are still VK. The point of vk.gy, in my opinion, is to preserve what once was - not to whitewash what has been. If we were to treat every band similar to how we have treated Sex Machineguns, that would include marking LUNA SEA, L'Arc~en~Ciel, and X JAPAN as non-vk bands because of their eventual change in visual style. I find this idea preposterous, because all of these bands have obviously (to me, at least) not only been visual bands in the past, but also influenced later bands. Sex Machineguns is no exception.

• Heavy metal can be visual kei. Visual kei is a visual term, and Sex Machineguns have had the looks. The genre of music is inconsequential.

• They have heavy ties to the visual scene Sex Machineguns not only have used a visual image, but also participated in many, many visual event lives. Whether people like it or not, whey were definitely part of the scene.

Do you know what I call bands who dressed visual, called themselves visual, and participated at visual events? Visual kei.

(Sorry about this - I don't mean to be inflammatory or condescending, I just have a strong opinion about this.. :P )

Totally agree.

And also, X played speed metal and are one of visual kei progenitors. DEAD END played heavy metal too. Gargoyle played thrash, DEATHGAZE played nu metal, every band HIZAKI forms is in debt to power metal, THE PIASS is sometimes as noisier as a grindcore band... All visual kei bands, much like SEX MACHINEGUNS.

They had the looks from their early days, the band was founded in 1989, up until HEAVY METAL THUNDER, released in 2005. And sort of came back to dresssing the part again after. So it was not "just a short area".

Anchang said it himself, they were a visual kei band.

they "were" a visual kei band for a period. Because they went with the mainstream flow to be more popular, still they saw themselves as "Metal" but simple used Vkei for popularity.... So yes they were, but aren't now. and they also started as non-visual So right now they are non-visual. So be it.

And luna sea, bucktick, larc, xjapan... those bands are still visual kei...they never really went off.

but as said, I come back about this kind of band issues (Together with John) we are currently interviewing someone about this kind of topic who was strongly involved with many non-vk and visual bands, including being the live event organisitor. And we might even get a new Tag for such kind of bands.

but to make you guys happy, I removed the non-vkei tag.

Very well, I'll eagerly await the following discussion. Thank you.